Comments on: Full Disclosure in the Wine World and a Few Little Known Secrets http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/ A blog about the wines of Spain and Portugal Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:46:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Estelle Platini http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-70291 Estelle Platini Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:45:01 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-70291 I do care about how the wines I love are made. But I don't want certification bodies for the details. It is enough that simple rules are enforced (such as: only grapes, mention of irrigation if any, etc.) I establish a trust relationship before asking for details. I do care about how the wines I love are made. But I don’t want certification bodies for the details. It is enough that simple rules are enforced (such as: only grapes, mention of irrigation if any, etc.)
I establish a trust relationship before asking for details.

]]> By: Ben http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-70207 Ben Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:10:11 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-70207 As a fairly base level wine drinker (I love it but don't over analyze it or get too much into the tasting notes side of things) it has never even occured to me to wonder whether or not they are lying to me, or I am being told half truths about the production process. I probably would buy into the romance marketing these guys rely on to make their brands 'special', but most of the time I don't even read the label on the bottle. If it says 'crianza' or 'grand reserva' on the front then that is good enough for me. I suspect many (most?) consumers are like this. P.s. having said all this I would care a great deal if I began finding out that harmful substances were going into wine without me knowing. In that respect the wine industry should be as liable to full disclosure as everyone else. 'Contains sulphites' is a start I suppose... As a fairly base level wine drinker (I love it but don’t over analyze it or get too much into the tasting notes side of things) it has never even occured to me to wonder whether or not they are lying to me, or I am being told half truths about the production process.

I probably would buy into the romance marketing these guys rely on to make their brands ’special’, but most of the time I don’t even read the label on the bottle. If it says ‘crianza’ or ‘grand reserva’ on the front then that is good enough for me. I suspect many (most?) consumers are like this.

P.s. having said all this I would care a great deal if I began finding out that harmful substances were going into wine without me knowing. In that respect the wine industry should be as liable to full disclosure as everyone else. ‘Contains sulphites’ is a start I suppose…

]]> By: -Victor- http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-70153 -Victor- Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:16:34 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-70153 An interesting thread and I must weigh in here ... Re:Manipulation of wines in Rioja and elsewhere and full disclosure of a maker's techniques. Techniques like chapitalization and acidification and cross-sourcing are only the tip of the iceberg in the new technological era of winemaking. All too common these days are techniques such as micro-oxygenation and mega-purple/mega-red which should be more of a concern to a consumer, and why these and other manipulations are being used more and more. Winemaker's are reluctant to talk about them but I have seen micro-oxygenation particularly popping up everywhere in recent years even yes, in Rioja. The mega-colourants are common, especially in California, although winemakers won't talk about them. Winemaking and the resulting regional "styles" have developed over many generations in most cases are a maker's response to his 'terroir'. Certain grapes thrive in certain climatic and soil conditions and the winemakers/growers responded by planting the correct varietals by neccesity, and using whatever technology was available to them to produce their wines. Thus the global wine landscape developed. Fast forward to 2008. Yes, technology has improved winemaking consistency and quality but the f'ashion' winemaking today and the drive for high scores from powerful wine critics are encouraging makers and companies such as Enologix do 'invent' wines specific to the critics' palates for high ratings. The mere fact that these types of companies exist should be disturbing to a wine lover. Re: Alcohol levels. I do a lot of blind tasting. One of the markers for old world wines USE to be alcohol levels. Generally, except in warmer regions, alchohol levels are restrained in the 'Old World". That marker has disappeared. It is common to see alcohol levels in many areas over 14%. Most countries have about a +/- 1% acurracy window by law. In fact several winemakers(ironically from California) and a respected retailer from California, Daryl Corti , have expressed concern about increasing alcohol levels and how they believe this is a flaw in wines worldwide. The beauty of the world wine landscape is diversity. Differences in flavor profiles, extract , alcohol etc. are all natural expressions of what a winemaker in a certain region has to work with. The resulting wines can be called 'styles' but what they really are is that areas expression of place. These expressions have developed over generations in many cases. It would be a loss indeed if they are lost in one generation so that new wine drinkers lose their frame of reference in not having these types of wines even available to refer to. Resources: Enologix http://enologix.com Micro-Oygenation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-oxygenation http://www.micro-ox.com Mega-Purple http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3488/is_3_87/ai_n16116989/pg_1 Mega Wines http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/dining/archives/003235.html Wine merchant Darrell Corti no longer sells wines over 14.5% alcohol http://wine.appellationamerica.com/wine-review/425/Wine-merchant-Darrell-Corti-.html Mondovino http://www.mondovinofilm.com/ An interesting thread and I must weigh in here …

Re:Manipulation of wines in Rioja and elsewhere and full disclosure of a maker’s techniques. Techniques like chapitalization and acidification and cross-sourcing are only the tip of the iceberg in the new technological era of winemaking. All too common these days are techniques such as micro-oxygenation and mega-purple/mega-red which should be more of a concern to a consumer, and why these and other manipulations are being used more and more. Winemaker’s are reluctant to talk about them but I have seen micro-oxygenation particularly popping up everywhere in recent years even yes, in Rioja. The mega-colourants are common, especially in California, although winemakers won’t talk about them.

Winemaking and the resulting regional “styles” have developed over many generations in most cases are a maker’s response to his ‘terroir’. Certain grapes thrive in certain climatic and soil conditions and the winemakers/growers responded by planting the correct varietals by neccesity, and using whatever technology was available to them to produce their wines. Thus the global wine landscape developed.

Fast forward to 2008. Yes, technology has improved winemaking consistency and quality but the f’ashion’ winemaking today and the drive for high scores from powerful wine critics are encouraging makers and companies such as Enologix do ‘invent’ wines specific to the critics’ palates for high ratings. The mere fact that these types of companies exist should be disturbing to a wine lover.

Re: Alcohol levels. I do a lot of blind tasting. One of the markers for old world wines USE to be alcohol levels. Generally, except in warmer regions, alchohol levels are restrained in the ‘Old World”. That marker has disappeared. It is common to see alcohol levels in many areas over 14%. Most countries have about a +/- 1% acurracy window by law. In fact several winemakers(ironically from California) and a respected retailer from California, Daryl Corti , have expressed concern about increasing alcohol levels and how they believe this is a flaw in wines worldwide.

The beauty of the world wine landscape is diversity. Differences in flavor profiles, extract , alcohol etc. are all natural expressions of what a winemaker in a certain region has to work with. The resulting wines can be called ’styles’ but what they really are is that areas expression of place. These expressions have developed over generations in many cases. It would be a loss indeed if they are lost in one generation so that new wine drinkers lose their frame of reference in not having these types of wines even available to refer to.

Resources:

Enologix
http://enologix.com

Micro-Oygenation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-oxygenation
http://www.micro-ox.com

Mega-Purple
http://findarticles.com/p/arti.....16989/pg_1
Mega Wines
http://www.sacbee.com/static/w.....03235.html

Wine merchant Darrell Corti no longer sells wines over 14.5% alcohol
http://wine.appellationamerica.....orti-.html

Mondovino
http://www.mondovinofilm.com/

]]> By: Ryan http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69953 Ryan Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:44:32 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69953 Jeff I agree with you, competely. The thing is I want to believe in a little romance, I'm just not sure if lying about it is ok. I'm all for omission, just not falsehoods. Jeff I agree with you, competely. The thing is I want to believe in a little romance, I’m just not sure if lying about it is ok. I’m all for omission, just not falsehoods.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69952 Jeff Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:32:00 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69952 I certainly have a more positive attitude towards a wine I believe to have been made in smaller quantities and with unquestionable practices. But to some extent, what isn't made in a way that is different than the prevailing industry likes to describe it? I think a certain "romanticism" (which also gets old) is somewhat necessary to maintaining a positive consumer image. After all, you probably don't publicize things which may hinder your sales efforts but you promote the positive and what the consumer wants to hear about.. I just don't see how being completely truthful about wine-making practices across the board would help anyone. I personally feel that I would get bored or just not care if I were to have access to the more technical details every time. Then again, maybe there is an exposé or book deal to be had here... I certainly have a more positive attitude towards a wine I believe to have been made in smaller quantities and with unquestionable practices. But to some extent, what isn’t made in a way that is different than the prevailing industry likes to describe it?

I think a certain “romanticism” (which also gets old) is somewhat necessary to maintaining a positive consumer image. After all, you probably don’t publicize things which may hinder your sales efforts but you promote the positive and what the consumer wants to hear about.. I just don’t see how being completely truthful about wine-making practices across the board would help anyone. I personally feel that I would get bored or just not care if I were to have access to the more technical details every time.

Then again, maybe there is an exposé or book deal to be had here…

]]> By: Gabriella http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69951 Gabriella Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:44:58 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69951 Tom, Your comment reminds me of an article (http://www.catavino.net/2007/01/28/wine-labeling-law/) we wrote last year on the Food and Drug Administration's desire to place a warning on all wine bottles of possible food allergens from eggs, wheat and fish. In my article, I denounced it, claiming that it was ridiculous to add, yet another, warning to our labels. However, it now makes me pause in light of what you said. As we've written above, wineries have tended to obscure the facts, preferring to share only what is in their best interest, but not of those for whom their affecting. Not that I'm suggesting we list every possible chemical that could potentially harm a human on the bottle, but I do wonder if we shouldn't be advocating a full disclosure policy on their website or elsewhere. I'm far from a purist, believing that wine should only be made the "natural" way, but I do believe in honesty and integrity. Tom,
Your comment reminds me of an article (http://www.catavino.net/2007/01/28/wine-labeling-law/) we wrote last year on the Food and Drug Administration’s desire to place a warning on all wine bottles of possible food allergens from eggs, wheat and fish. In my article, I denounced it, claiming that it was ridiculous to add, yet another, warning to our labels. However, it now makes me pause in light of what you said. As we’ve written above, wineries have tended to obscure the facts, preferring to share only what is in their best interest, but not of those for whom their affecting. Not that I’m suggesting we list every possible chemical that could potentially harm a human on the bottle, but I do wonder if we shouldn’t be advocating a full disclosure policy on their website or elsewhere.

I’m far from a purist, believing that wine should only be made the “natural” way, but I do believe in honesty and integrity.

]]> By: Tom http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69950 Tom Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:20:41 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69950 Interesting. Another for the list? Many wineries know little about the additives, flavourings and so on that they chuck in the wine. My dad, who lives in Australia, is a big wine fan and was fortunate enough to meet the scientific director of a major Australian winery. Talking about a susceptibility to certain wines (they make him sick, and I suffer from this too), the wine science chap basically said that yes, there are plenty of people who get that sort of thing, that one day someone will be proven to have died from it and the industry will be hit by some sort of class action lawsuit and that frankly, they know very little about the stuff they add to the wine. A lot of the time they add it because it's on the recipe, but they have little understanding of how these ingredients react with each other or with the human who ends up consuming them. Interesting. Another for the list? Many wineries know little about the additives, flavourings and so on that they chuck in the wine. My dad, who lives in Australia, is a big wine fan and was fortunate enough to meet the scientific director of a major Australian winery. Talking about a susceptibility to certain wines (they make him sick, and I suffer from this too), the wine science chap basically said that yes, there are plenty of people who get that sort of thing, that one day someone will be proven to have died from it and the industry will be hit by some sort of class action lawsuit and that frankly, they know very little about the stuff they add to the wine. A lot of the time they add it because it’s on the recipe, but they have little understanding of how these ingredients react with each other or with the human who ends up consuming them.

]]> By: wine » Blog Archive » Full Disclosure in the Wine World and a Few Little Known Secrets http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69947 wine » Blog Archive » Full Disclosure in the Wine World and a Few Little Known Secrets Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:04:16 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69947 [...] Read the rest of this great post here [...] [...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]

]]> By: Taster B http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69946 Taster B Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:34:44 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69946 I agree--First of all wine-making has been going on for thousands of years and while there have been many refinements over the centuries, I don't think the gentleness with which one gets the juice from point A to point B is going to make a noticeable difference in the final product. However, I do believe that a wine maker's passion will make a difference, and if he thinks that massaging the grapes makes a better wine then, so be it! Also, there are a lot of consumers who don't want to hear that a wine was flavored by chips rather than being aged in a barrel (even though chips are the much more ecological choice these days), or that the juice was manipulated to achieve the balance they find in their glass, but, you are so right: lying about it is just dishonest. Not everyone expects their wine to be 100% un-manipulated, and those of us that don't understand that there are certain "adjustments" that the wine-maker makes in the interest of producing what he believes to be a better product. On the other hand, some mystery to maintain the romance is ok too. ;) I agree–First of all wine-making has been going on for thousands of years and while there have been many refinements over the centuries, I don’t think the gentleness with which one gets the juice from point A to point B is going to make a noticeable difference in the final product.
However, I do believe that a wine maker’s passion will make a difference, and if he thinks that massaging the grapes makes a better wine then, so be it!
Also, there are a lot of consumers who don’t want to hear that a wine was flavored by chips rather than being aged in a barrel (even though chips are the much more ecological choice these days), or that the juice was manipulated to achieve the balance they find in their glass, but, you are so right: lying about it is just dishonest. Not everyone expects their wine to be 100% un-manipulated, and those of us that don’t understand that there are certain “adjustments” that the wine-maker makes in the interest of producing what he believes to be a better product. On the other hand, some mystery to maintain the romance is ok too. ;)

]]> By: kalebeul » Why I buy my wine cheap from a bodega owned by ignorant peasants http://www.catavino.net/blog/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69944 kalebeul » Why I buy my wine cheap from a bodega owned by ignorant peasants Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:29:37 +0000 http://www.catavino.net/2008/03/20/full-disclosure-in-the-wine-world-and-a-few-little-known-secrets/#comment-69944 [...] don’t screw around with it like the brand marketeers do. Fact #6 from a good post by Ryan Opaz helps us understand why a sizeable proportion of new Spanish wine is toxic piss: “Oak aged [...] [...] don’t screw around with it like the brand marketeers do. Fact #6 from a good post by Ryan Opaz helps us understand why a sizeable proportion of new Spanish wine is toxic piss: “Oak aged [...]

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